Nobody Wins Dem Caucus. Nobody.
I voted for Bram in rounds one and two- and as I made my way toward the box with my third round ballot, I just couldn’t vote for either of the remaining candidates. I left and got some dinner, leaving the Democrats and the Progressives to sort it out without me… which they failed to do. Final count: Tim Ashe 540, Miro Weinberger 540… With a runoff between the two to be held later. Time and place to be announced.
I don’t know how rich Ashe and Weinberger personally are, But they both went to Harvard which isn’t a cheap school. And as far as I can tell neither has what I would consider a ‘hard job’ on their resume. By ‘hard job’ I mean washing dishes, or driving a cab, or running a register at a convenience store. Something that pays $10 an hour or less. Is it valid or fair for me to bring this up? I don’t know, but it’s something I feel. I just think that whether it’s Ashe or Weinberger who eventually wins, the Dems will have nominated someone of great personal privilege from the proverbial, if not actual “one percent.” Saying nothing about these two personally, I find that uncomfortable from a macro analytic standpoint… from a zeitgeist standpoint. If I say that Kurt Wright’s experience at Kerry’s Quick Stop probably helps him personally understand middle class struggles better then Ashe or Weinberger, is that class warfare? I don’t think so. I don’t know. I just feel a little sad that the Dems failed to nominate Bram Kranichfeld, who was clearly, clearly their best hope at winning the election.
It will be interesting now to see whether the Progressives will have to go first and pick a mayoral candidate before the Dems do.
(Breathing heavy sigh…) Miro and Tim, you both have an open invitation to do an on the record interview with me. I record them and transcribe them word for word for the public record. For examples, scroll through this blog and read the ones I did with Bram and Jason recently. Or the ones I did with Andy Montroll, Bob Kiss Dan Smith and Kurt Wright three years ago. The preparation and transciption for these things is a lot of work but I think it’s a good public service. I ask better questions than the rest of the media. Sunday mornings at the Bagel Cafe and Deli work best for me. Call or email me if you want to set it up. Miro, I appreciate the offer to have coffee, but I’m not going to have coffee just for fun. I’m going to bring my tape recorder, if I’m going to do it at all.
Forgive my crankyness- but as much as people want to call it a shiny example of democracy, that was a very, very unsatisfying caucus.
52 comments
Oh yes… and at one point the computerized voter checklists went down and they moved to paper checklists, but when they did that, how did they know from the paper lists who had already picked up ballots?
Last I checked, Cornell Law – where your man of the people, Bram, went to school – is not only Ivy League, but it’s damn expensive, too. $75 grand a year.
Discounting Miro and Ashe for their hard work and education is pathetic. Just admit that you don’t like them as candidates or that you don’t connect. But your reasoning is hypocritical and the anti-intellectual posturing tells me it’s time to stop reading this blog.
If you were unsatisfied with the democratic process today, look in the mirror. ~1500 people turned out and spent 5+ hours today. You just worried about some made up pedigree litmus test. Weak.
Did I touch a nerve? You are of course welcome to stop reading at any time, but I doubt you will. Thanks for your comment Henry Winkler.
Haik reflects a sad disappointment that I saw over and over as the evening dragged on. An Ashe supporter, who said she registered at DMV before the deadline, was not on the checklist and she could not vote. I suggested she see an official before the next caucus, and get a copy of her registration. I told her others brought a copy of the registration with them. She lashed out at me, said I was blaming her, and later when the tie vote was announced I thought of her. A few weeks ago I posted on FPF, warning people to call the city clerk to be sure they are on the checklist if they have any doubts. Anyway, I think a lot of people left the caucus feeling sad, and now there’s no unity rally tomorrow. It was scheduled for noon, wasn’t it? Like a downtown lunch bunch thing? What’s that all about?
Frustration with the process is one thing. Clearly it was far from perfect. I’ve heard that people had to leave before voting for round 3 (not leaving because they didn’t want to vote…). However, describing a candidate as a “1%’r” because he went to Harvard is something else. Haik your “crankiness” sounds like the kind of unsubtle disparaging we get out of Fox News. There hasn’t been a class of candidates this qualified in Burlington for a long time. Too bad YOUR choice didn’t get the votes. 3 of the 4 guys will be (by what anyone can tell) a great improvement over what is there now (Ashe being the odd man out–Monorail!). So, is Burlington better or worse for you 1) not voting and 2) Shitting on Miro post-caucus? Really…undercutting Miro, to what end…Ashe? Kurt? Putting it terms I know appeal to you: is such a tactic in YOUR best interest?
Jesus Jonus. I’m not ‘shitting’ on anybody. I voted in two out of three rounds. I just didn’t want to vote for Weinberger or Ashe tonight. Maybe one other them will show me something to change my mind. We’ll see. I don’t see what you’re so pissed about. Is it such a sin to say somebody’s rich? I guess we’re supposed to ignor that, or pretend it doesn’t matter. yet candidates regularly do backflips to prove what ‘regular guys’ they are ususally because they are trying to compensate for the fact they’re the exact opposite. If they grew up poor like Bill Clinton they play it up. Bernie plays it up. “It’s not that we were poor” he said in his campaign ad against Peter Plymton Smith,”I mean we were never hungry…” with the implication being that he was close to hungry and can therefore relate to the huddled masses. The debate in America about income inequality is more than academic. If it’s fair to call attention to the fact someone started poor and came up, it’s equally valid to point out that they started rich and stayed that way. Swear at me all you want. The fact is Kurt will have an advantage with middle class people because he shares the experience of actually being middle class- actually having to fight for his money. College and post graduate education represent a way for people to come up, but they also represent the system by which privilege and class structure are maintained from generation to generation. I know you know that’s true.
Haik, you’re dissing Miro and Tim in favor of Kurt because they’re educated? And, wait, you sit on the school board? With two kids in the BTV schools, that makes me very, very nervous.
Sorry, your “man-of-the-people” populism sounds like typical American anti-intellectualism, which gives people a free pass to say that global warming and evolution are false.
The question with Kurt isn’t that he’s had low level jobs. It’s that he’s never had a high-level one, like the mayor is. But that’s the good things with blogs: you can always write a new, better post.
Cheers!
“Haik, you’re dissing Miro and Tim in favor of Kurt because they’re educated?”
Wrong. I’m not ‘dissing’ anyone, and my point about Harvard was simply that Ashe and Weinbgerger are of a priviledged class.
“And, wait, you sit on the school board?”
Yes and I work very hard at it. And I believe in public education and I am representing my ward with great effectiveness.
“With two kids in the BTV schools, that makes me very, very nervous.”
Leave the children out of it.
“Sorry, your “man-of-the-people” populism sounds like typical American anti-intellectualism, which gives people a free pass to say that global warming and evolution are false.”
And use of the term “anti-intellectualism” sounds ‘holier-than-thou’ snobery.
“The question with Kurt isn’t that he’s had low level jobs. It’s that he’s never had a high-level one, like the mayor is.”
But Kurt has won a bunch of elections, whereas Miro Weinberger has won exactly ZERO. Ashe has won elections, but he’s a Progressive, not a Democrat. Take your pick.
“But that’s the good things with blogs: you can always write a new, better post.”
Yeah yeah. Thanks for reading this blog, Mr. Intellectual. Visit Often.
Welcome to the new elitism! Only in Burlington is a degree from Harvard considered a bad thing.
Can you explain how Harvard == Bad and Cornell Law Degree == good? Is Cornell paying you?
Haha, they say don’t feed the trolls, but they usually mean commenters, not the blog writers themselves. This is a new one.
Thanks I am an Intellectual. And I’ve had crappy, low paying jobs. It sucks when people don’t fit in neat boxes, doesn’t it.
Don’t worry, though, I don’t read this blog very often.
“Can you explain how Harvard == Bad and Cornell Law Degree == good?”
Harvard does not equal bad. I never said that, and y’all’s trasparent attempts to twist my words are silly.
Wherever he was educated, and however well off he is or isn’t- Bram at least has what I consider a hard job. He faces the worst elements of society on a daily basis, and puts a lot of them in jail to maintain law and order and keep the rest of us safe. I wish he had played up the “clean up this town” angle a little more.
Look, I am just one Burlington voter with my own opinions who just happens to write a popular blog about local politics. If the Democrats had been smarter and nominated their best candidate, I probably would have supported him in the general. But as of now I remain totally undecided.
“Haha, they say don’t feed the trolls, but they usually mean commenters, not the blog writers themselves.”
Ah! name calling! How very intellectual.
So….given the state of the City at the moment, we should dumb down the position of mayor? Given the number of financial related issues that need to be addressed (btc, airport, retirement plan)….we should be turning to someone who made $10 an hour back in the day?
That is reactionary and plain wrong. Also baiting and trivializing your readers is wrong too.
Seems like you just happened to finally run out of Halloween candy and have a case of the crankyies.
Good luck.
I am not saying we should dumb down the mayor’s office, but it would not be meaningless to me that someone has had the experience of toil. Being a competent technocrat is only one element of leadership, you know. I think commenters this morning are forgetting that there’s a ghost in the machine.
Ha Rich Nadworny, you nailed it.
Haik, your arguments here, what there are of them, ring very hallow. Your description of a “hard job” includes washing dishes, working a register–jobs that require low level education (if any) and…being a lawyer for the state–something requiring a generally very expensive degree. How you put those in the same category is something of a mystery. Further, it is a significant assumption to say that anyone who’s done those things actually worked hard. We assume such things all the time. But lets not kid ourselves into thinking that every person who has had a low paying job has taken from that some life experiences that somehow make them a better person. That might be true for you, and even for lots of people. But assigning such qualities without proof is just wishful thinking. It is a form of pseudo-blue collar elitism.
Yes, as well as anyone, I understand the social forces involved with economics, education, and life chances. We call that SES. But suggesting/hinting (and no one is twisting your words, you are suggesting) that his education and SES somehow make Miro less qualified than Bram (you haven’t shown his to any less significant) is just negative campaigning. Moreover, has Miro done back flips to prove he’s a “regular guy”? Your argument about privilege and class, while sociologically viable, seems completely out of place in a debate about the most qualified person to fix the city. If you’re now changing topics and getting into an OWS argument, well…have at it. Remember, the guy you’re suggesting is the most “man of the people” is also the guy who is suggesting the city sell of one of it’s greatest, most successful assets.
Be careful what you wish for.
All the candidates have Ivy League or Stanford graduate degrees and have some management or business experience that puts them at the top of the experience heap — that’s why they’re credibly running for mayor. Bram was a corporate lawyer for “natural gas, oil and finance” [Seven Days]. I don’t fault him for that, and I’m sure he got good experience doing it. Implying that some are the 99% and some are the 1% is inane. Disagree with the argument and the line you’re drawing. If one wants to argue that working in the criminal justice system is a particularly relevant job to being mayor, then that’s at least a supportable argument.
I think democracy worked great tonight, but it turned out to be a tie. If voters didn’t care enough about the difference between the remaining candidates (and there is a clear distinction with respect to connection to the Kiss Administration, IMHO) and left the caucus, that was their decision. That excuses people who didn’t think a tie was a possibility or were encouraged to leave by Dem officials, as has been rumored. But Haik didn’t think that. “@HaikBedrosian: “I will let y’all sort out the winner from here. I’m out. #BTV #BTVmayor”. Those still there did try to sort it out, but it was equally divided. Such is democracy. If more people had stuck around, perhaps it wouldn’t have been a tie.
Mostly, ditto Nadworny.
David: I was there and I distinctly heard Steve Howard say, “…you don’t need to stick around for the results.” An hour later, I was getting furious texts to return to vote a 4th time. If they’d had a revote, I think there would have been real outrage. They chose the least of a series of evils, I think.
I know at least 4 Miro supporters who had to leave before the 3rd vote. They weren’t bored or disenfranchised like Haik, they had child care and work issues. I’m sure Ashe supporters could claim the same, but my understanding is that a fair number of the Ashe crowd were dependent on the Ashe campaign for rides back to Cathedral Square, so they weren’t going anywhere.
Here’s the sad point Haik is missing: EVERY VOTE COUNTED last night. Democracy doesn’t get ANY BETTER THAN THAT!
Let me get this right: Haik leaves the caucus early and misses a chance to have the deciding vote to nominate the Democratic choice for mayor and everyone else is to blame? Haik, you might not have liked either remaining candidate, but couldn’t you have picked one? You would have decided the result!
Dude, don’t you write a blog about politics? This is embarrassing!
GG: I have heard the same thing re: Ashe supporters. I believe that is called, in the infamous words of Hinda Miller, “gaming the system.”
Despite the result being “unsatisfying,” it seems yesterday was a great demonstration of democracy. Was it perfect? Of course not. Are there some questions that need to be answered re: process? For sure. But, that many people participating, having direct influence on the results is great.
jonas: as much as I don’t like the result, I can’t fault Ashe for bringing in the votes the way he did. Nothing illegal and he’s pushing for votes.
I do think the Democrats really let the fox in the hen house with Ashe, though. Those were classic prog voters at the caucus voting for him, not Democrats. Kurt Wright has to be praying to face Ashe and not Miro.
Sure, it’s not illegal. But…um….if the older folks wanted to leave…could they have?
The doors weren’t locked.
Again, I’m not happy with it, but getting out the vote is getting out the vote. God helps candidates who help themselves.
The doors to the van driving them well might have been. Just saying…its gaming the system.
I can’t imagine Miro’s crew not objecting if that were the case, though. They’re not stupid, even with the Harvard degrees.
Granted, its not that big a deal. After all, getting people to participate is probably the greater good. Nonetheless, the issue of voters being told it was ok to leave when other voters–partial to one side–might not have been ABLE to leave seems like a set of problems worth giving more consideration, that’s all.
Haik, you touched a nerve. Interesting that some of the same posters who chide Haik for his skeptical view of the Kennedy School, seem dismissive of Kurt’s blue collar roots. Both sides of the same coin, really.
I’m old enough to remember when it was normal for Harvard kids, or students at other elite schools, to have shitty, manual labor jobs in the summer, and even for a year or two post-grad. And yeah, I think they are better off for it. I know I am. Privileged kids today–and I include those in Tim and Miro’s generation–are taught the art of serial internships and peer networking, over the shitty job. Their feet never touch the ground. I’m not saying that Tim and Miro are out of touch or elitist–I have no idea . . . but I very much buy into Haik’s notion that our body politic is healthier if it includes leaders from all walks of life. On the whole, our leadership class is WAY over-represented by the 1%, on both sides.
Democracy includes choosing not to vote, folks. Haik participated as much as he felt comfortable and I don’t think we should fault him for his decision. Btw, it wasn’t like he was the ONLY one to bow out in the third round! Look at the goddamn vote totals:
1st Rd: 1,309 (Lorber out with 106)
2nd Rd: 1,217 (Bram out with 356)
3rd Rd: 1,081 (tied)
Pretty much ALL of Lorber’s people left without voting in next round and a good portion of Bram’s support left after he was out. Whether this was because of the lack of a public endorsement opportunity afforded to candidates after dropping out, or whether it was the process that gave voters the opportunity to bail in between final tallies and next voting period, the bottom line is the whole “2nd vote” theory was completely a wash. Had Lorber’s folks decided to back a candidate, we’d have a different outcome. Had Bram or Lorber publicly endorsed another candidate perhaps we’d see different numbers. Had Ashe not packed the caucus with progressives I’m pretty sure Bram would have walked away with it.
Millions of theories, lots of conjectures. Bottom line though, Haik was not alone in his decision to bail, be it for political reasons or parental reasons. People shouldn’t have to hang out and do direct democracy for 7 hours on a Sunday. If it were 1850, I’d be all for it. But it’s not. And we should have a system that reflects 2011, not 1850.
RE: the Ivy league bullshit: I agree with Haik’s point here: Ashe and Miro haven’t really had jobs that show them the tougher side of life. Bram sees that stuff everyday as a prosecutor and by virtue of living in a tiny house in the old north end where his neighbors call him up for food when they’re food stamps run out. Miro’s company is also kind of joke — I’m amazed no one has actually investigated the “projects” he speaks of. His company website doesn’t even list them. Meanwhile, Ashe has spent his life running for office and simply working for then-Rep. Sanders is not something to hang your hat on — there was no mgmt experience, no leadership experience, in that job. And shockingly, people really think that the Progressives deserve ANOTHER swing of the bat despite Ashe coming out as late as 2009 with a glowing endorsement of Kiss and the wonders of Burlington Telecom.
Also, I don’t think comparing graduate schools records are the way to go here. Kids in poverty go to Ivy league schools right next to the white collar trust fund babies. Frankly, Bram doesn’t come from money, he worked hard to get into Univ of Chicago and Cornell Law and is the epitome of “pulling himself up by his bootstraps,” exactly the kind of guy to steal away a ton of support from Kurt Wright. The problem is no one knows this. Perhaps as he continues his work as a prosecutor and working on issues on City Council people will realize that.
Morgan – agreed. well said.
I have to ask: how is it that there continues to be this subtle connection between some of the candidates and the “1%”? Do they own corporations? Pay little-to-no taxes? Fire people they’ve never met? That is the 1%…or at least, that’s what I thought it was. Now, according to this set of comments, if there is a potential that if you’ve never worked for minimum wage, you’re in the 1%! Boy…that’s an awfully broad brush.
Maybe people ought to watch the video here: http://miroformayor.com/about, and see if Miro’s background makes him part of the 1%. You know, the grandparent’s escaping Russia, putting themselves through school…that kinda 1% behavior. How about substantiating some of these characterizations with actual data?
@ J: No info on projects? This appears quite readily on the Hartland Group website: http://www.hartlandgroup.biz/projects/current.html
Are you referring to something else?
“The doors to the van driving them well might have been. Just saying…its gaming the system.”
Shame on you Jonas for what you are implying. The folks who were in the reserve section that you are speaking of, showed up because they know Tim from his work providing housing for seniors. Many of them were not even from properties related to Cathedral Square. Senior adults are a part of our community and they were very pleased to be at the caucus. They were excited and happy to be involved and felt like they were “in the place to be.”
Are you implying only people who have full independance with mobility should be allowed to attend a caucus and vote?
Lastly – I’m immediately skeptical of anyone who labels themselves an “intellectual.”
Yes, shame on my implications….but not on all the implications being made about other candidates. Mine is about no less plausible. No, of course I’m not saying older folks shouldn’t have been there. Nor did I say anything about Tim’s work on behalf of the elderly. As I DID say, the greater good is having more people participate. I am simply curious about the process, as it unfolded yesterday–given that people who were in fill control of their own mobility could and did leave.
J – really, all those Lorber people walked out? All those people who were still wearing Lorber stickers when I left at 6pm just had them on for kicks? There were plenty of Lorber supporters there after he left INCLUDING LORBER. What, you think he abstained after that?
I left, like many before me, because I had to leave due to childcare issues. I think a lot of people had to leave, simple as that, some after the 1st vote. I did sit with 4 Bram supporters who then stuck to vote for Miro (as much an anti-Ashe vote as anything).
OF COURSE Haik is welcome to abstain from voting. But to then complain about the process of democracy in his public blog the next day? That’s just whining. He’s pissed because his guy didn’t win! Why he can’t just say so, nothing wrong there. Instead, has to imply that Miro has somehow never actually worked for a living is just sour grapes. [Rich N: you really got it right; I hope Haik lives to write a better blog.]
Meanwhile, if Bram really has a bootstrap story to tell and the rest of us don’t know it, whose fault is that? Why is Bram’s unknown backstory somehow making him a hero yet Miro’s backstory is full of innuendo and you “quote things” to imply that Miro didn’t actually have any “projects” at all. Perhaps you can actually come out and say that Miro is a liar – you more or less did with that call for the investigation (let someone else do the work, though).
Here’s a clue: http://www.hartlandgroup.biz/projects/current.html
Right there. On his WWW site. The “projects” you malign. 3 projects focusing acutely on affordable housing. Gosh, I think they’re going to name a Monopoly Square after him, given his 1% style.
Oh wait, you wanted the COMPLETED projects? Here they are:
http://www.hartlandgroup.biz/projects/index.html
Jesus, how hard did you look? Honestly, J, with your comments about “virtually ALL” of Lorber’s people leaving and implying that Miro needs investigation, I wonder what third trick you have up your sleeve. Tim Ashe can be bought?
Are you at ALL familiar with the work Miro’s company did in Richford? Quite an excellent example of the kind of skill and experience I’d like to see brought to the mayor’s office, personally. You can make a million subs while talking to The People and I’m still going with the guy who has actually done work like this.
This entire thread relating to the background of the candidates is devoid of fact. And the OG/Keepin’ It Real/Calloused Hands stuff is plain silly. We’re talking a Democrat and a Prog/Dem here, does anyone think they’re going to start selling all the oil rights in Burlington and plowing down all the affordable housing to make room for his 1% friends or whatever else we might accuse the 1%ers of doing? “Miro Weinberger Supports The Rich With Tax Breaks for Dupont Chemical on the Shores of Lake Champlain”.
Yeah…that.
Jonas – Did you READ the fine print of the site? Most of those projects have been in the “Current” section for a long time and the ones that have actually been completed were finished years ago when the Hartland Group wasn’t even in existence yet!
“The projects below were completed by the Hartland Group or by its partners when they were serving as principals in other organizations.”
Um…where’s the beef amigo? Miro’s “business experience” literally involves TWO projects over almost 10 years that the Hartland Group has accomplished as consultants! One project was just the re-dev plan for ONE building in Richford, VT.
Prior to starting Hartland Group all of Miro’s projects were in the NYC area. Nothing in Vermont. And many of the projects he lists weren’t even completed or managed by HIM but rather by Greyston, the group he worked for. He’s poaching projects from an earlier employer – which is a bit of a stretch for me. Just compare for yourself:
http://www.hartlandgroup.biz/projects/index.html
http://www.greyston.org/index.php?real_estate
Here’s the real point though: I’m not knocking Miro’s experience on it’s own: he’s a great guy who has done a lot of good, both here in VT and in NYC. BUT, he’s running for mayor and he’s done a great job of selling himself as “businessman” when in reality he’s not — and nothing on his record, when you actually dig into the details, reveals the qualities I’d like to see in a mayor, especially a mayor who’s going to dig us out of this financial mess Tim Ashe helped put us in.
Hey, J – do you know anything about real estate development? How many projects, over 10 years, do you think Miro should have had a hand in? Are you aware of how many phases and years projects like this take before they are “complete?”
I count *6* by the way. 4 active, 2 complete. By developer standards, that’s actually an extremely full plate. Explain to me your experience with real estate development projects, particularly in Vermont, and their alacrity.
He’s not poaching projects from an earlier employer – what’s wrong with you? – The Hartland Group site ISN’T HIS MAYORAL CAMPAIGN, it’s a friggin’ business WWW site. He’s SUPPOSED to list all the projects his partners have ever worked on! Now you’re suggesting that Miro somewhere, anywhere has actually taken credit for the Grayston work in his campaign.
Yeesh.
Yeah….that.
Actually, I used to work for a real estate developer here in Chittenden County. They developed a helluva lot more projects than the 2 Hartland has completed — since ’90 they’ve completed 18 residential projects of 65 units or more and 10 commercial projects. Yes, of course I understand that real estate dev (RED) is a slower moving beast than say, corproate marketing. But, the Hartland Group isn’t doing RED soup-to-nuts. It’s doing very small, specific, consulting on helping to fill and market the completed projects. Is it any wonder that none of the clients I can find online that Hartland has worked with don’t mention Hartland but DO mention all of contractors and consultants involved in actual building construction or group involved in lending financial support? The firm I worked with here in CC did soup-to-nuts dev — land purchase, financing, construction, and then re-sale. Hartland doesn’t do that…so I would expect them to have a few more projects than say, a typical soup-to-nuts RED firm.
And I do think adding projects to the Hartland website and portfolio from Greyston is a little disingenuous. Its one thing if he’s putting up a personal curriculum vitae or resume on a site like Monster or LinkedIn but its entirely another to put projects from a different company altogether on the Hartland site/portfolio. I appreciate the disclaimer that i sited before, but it still feels like a stretch.
His website says: “…his company built over 200 affordable and market rate homes in Vermont and New Hampshire, consisting of over $40 million of development,” but I can’t seem to find that project work anywhere on the Hartland Group’s website. Since you’re clearly supporting Miro, I’d appreciate if you could direct me to it. Is he counting un-finished projects in that total? Is he doing his own development work on the side, outside of Hartland? If so, he should be clear on it.
His website also implies that Hartland serves as the project lead for these RED projects — is that true? The Hartland Group website says that they are “development consultants” which could be anything under the sun if you understand how RED works.
RE: Lorber’s peeps: Sure, we don’t know for sure how many stayed and how many left. And of course, there were lots of people supporting all four candidates who had to leave for childcare, family or work obligations. I actually don’t remember seeing a ton of Lorber’s people there after that second round voting began — I agree I saw some and there were about 20 or so hanging out by the table in the back. I also know that Lorber never gave any message to his people about whether they should stay and vote or whether they should leave. As a voter, I know they were probably looking for some guidance on “what to do now” since their candidate was out. I’m not criticizing his decision but merely pointing out that lots of folks left bc their candidate was done and wasn’t giving them any direction on how to engage next.
J, I’m only going to respond to your Lorber comments. It seems to me that Miro should respond to your questions about his resume at this point. I don’t represent him and I hadn’t looked for his project list until an hour ago when you brought it up.
First, note that “some and…about 20…” Lorber supporters whom you identified represents, I dunno, 30% of his total votes. Given that not 100% of his voters probably wore stickers and that even if you wish to retract your new estimates, it’s safe to say that not “virtually ALL” of his supporters left. I believe, though I don’t wish to misconstrue your position, that you used this as evidence of people leaving after their preferred candidate was eliminated. Which surely happened. My point is that not many of those people then went and blogged about what a poor democratic experience it was as a result.
As for the lack of endorsements – I wondered about that. I can only assume that the candidates agreed in advance not to endorse OR it’s something within the democratic caucus bylaws. I, too, wished for some feedback that way. Perhaps Haik can take a moment from the class warfare to let us know.
Fair enough — I can respect that. My larger point in all of this is just that no one has really challenged Miro on this stuff since he’s made it a crucial part of his stump speech and candidate image.
RE: Lorber – yes, I’d like to retract my previous “almost ALL” comment. I’m sure not all of his supporters left. However, I do think that all of his support was wearing stickers — I mean, if you had that many voters you were tracking wouldn’t you make sure they all had signage/labels? The only folks who didn’t come in sporting any candidate “flair” were the few undecideds and I really didn’t see a lot of them — maybe 15-20% total?
As for blogging about the poor experience — meh. Haik has a blog that lots of Burlingtonians read — I’m sure there are blogs of Burlingtonians that NO ONE reads. So we’ll never know about the level of complaints.
Endorsements – I think the endorsements were tricky because there was no time alotted for it. The ONLY time it would have ocurred would be as a candidate was dropping out on stage in which case he/she could say into the microphone, “I’d like you all to know that I am endorsing _______ and encourage my supporters to get behind his/her campaign.” But that didn’t happen….and I’m not sure it would have.
J – I actually think that each of the candidates could have done a better job relating his experience to the job at hand, both at the caucus and in general. Bram’s experience (note the lack of quotes) didn’t strike me as any more or less relevant than Miro’s. Or Jason’s. I do see those three as different from Tim Ashe, however.
As for endorsements, I thought we might hear exactly what you described. “Thank you supporters, I now endorse X.”
A lot of this sturm und drang feels contrived.
Imagine this: broadcast a one sided piece of “news” on a popular news source…let the literati of the Queen City declare it biased if not ignorant….incite a dozen posts and increase readership…which in turn creates more postings..bring up all sorts of tangential and hollow side arguments which pit you squarely against anyone with an education…and what do you have other than more viewers? Fox News?
No, Haik’s site
Congrats…you jumped the shark.
Haik, that’s great that you’re standing up for the 99% here, but you’re completely misguided. As has been pointed out, your boy Bram went to an Ivy too, and it doesn’t even matter. Can you please point out what makes Tim Ashe a 1%-er, besides his Harvard pedigree? Is it because he was the only candidate not to brag about his one-car family status in the debates? You realize he works for a nonprofit?
Look, I like Bram, and I think he’ll be a great leader some day. My hesitation was less about his age and more about the fact he’s only lived here for 5 years. Tim and Miro are very similar, and IMO, the best candidates, so whoever wins, I’m happy.
Kurt’s experience at Kerry’s Kwik Stop is great, but the next mayor has some serious shit to deal with. Financial shit. 1%-er hotshot tough talker in a nice suit shit. Call me crazy but I’ll take someone with business cred. This “one of us” nonsense is how we end up with terrible GOP candidates all the time. I know I’m not qualified to run this city. I hope the mayor doesn’t have THAT much in common with me.
BTW — the fighting between Tim and Miro’s supporters is hilarious. Andy from 7 Days has pointed out how similar these two are on their live blog yesterday. This is pure Dem/Prog family feud, and it’s dumb.
Jonathan – Bram has been here for 7 years. But really, who’s counting? I know lots of people who were born here and have done less for the community than folks who have been here for 10 months.
And that serious shit you’re talking about — that financial shit? Yeah, I’d rather a guy who cut his teeth on Wall Street as a lawyer be in the negotiating room with Citi Financial than a small time developer or politician. Putting Miro or Tim in that room with the Wall Street lawyers is blood in the water as far as Citi is considered. Bram understands what makes these clowns tick and speaks their language. No other candidate does…and BTV is on the hook based on their ability to deal with the big boys.
Anonymous. Two years at a wall street firm does not qualify someone as a “business lawyer” or put any fear into Citi. They have no interest in negotiating with the City and would prefer to drag it out and let BT die a slow death.
Thought Bram moved here in 2006? If I’m wrong, faux pas. Either way, like I said, he has a bright future, but I still don’t think now is his time. And I agree that 2 years on Wall Street doesn’t make him an expert. 2 yrs on the City Council isn’t much either. FWIW I would prefer if Miro had more political experience, too, but I do trust his biz experience. Lorber probably had the most & best political experience, but he ran a terrible campaign. Oh well, none of this matters at this point, and that was as a dig at Kurt, not Bram. I’d take any of these Dem candidates over Kurt, and I still think anyone who loved Bram but hates Ashe or Miro isn’t voting smart.
“I voted for Bram in rounds one and two- and as I made my way toward the box with my third round ballot, I just couldn’t vote for either of the remaining candidates.”
Do you vote for ideas or do you vote for friends? I would say the same to Lorber’s supporters who left en masse after he dropped out. No room in democracy for pouting.
“I don’t know how rich Ashe and Weinberger personally are, But they both went to Harvard which isn’t a cheap school.”
This has already been debunked so I won’t say it again…
“And as far as I can tell neither has what I would consider a ‘hard job’ on their resume. By ‘hard job’ I mean washing dishes, or driving a cab, or running a register at a convenience store. Something that pays $10 an hour or less.”
Did they put their high school summer jobs on their resumes? Are you sure of this? Is there any reason for a politician to talk about every boring shitty job they had, unless they’re pandering to seem like “one of us”?
“I just think that whether it’s Ashe or Weinberger who eventually wins, the Dems will have nominated someone of great personal privilege from the proverbial, if not actual “one percent.””
The proverbial one percent, whatever that means.
“If I say that Kurt Wright’s experience at Kerry’s Quick Stop probably helps him personally understand middle class struggles better then Ashe or Weinberger, is that class warfare?”
Don’t know. But I fail to see why Wright has more sympathy for the middle class just because he worked job x however many years ago.
“I just feel a little sad that the Dems failed to nominate Bram Kranichfeld, who was clearly, clearly their best hope at winning the election.”
Not sure of that. I actually think Ashe might be the best shot, and here is why — odds are Kiss is (inexplicably) running again. Ashe has more BT stains than Bram, but he also takes more Progs from Bob than Bram would. I still find it unbelieveable that the GOP put out Wright again. He’s the Repub with the biggest ties to the BT fiasco. He doesn’t have an embarassing Youtube clip but he failed just as badly in the situation. I know there aren’t many GOPs in Burlington but they could have found SOMEONE else, hands totally clean of BT…
“It will be interesting now to see whether the Progressives will have to go first and pick a mayoral candidate before the Dems do.”
If they want to stay relevant they’ll nominate the Dem. Kiss will run as an indie, he doesn’t care anymore.
“Forgive my crankyness- but as much as people want to call it a shiny example of democracy, that was a very, very unsatisfying caucus.”
Agreed! This 7+ hour disaster revealed the flaws of the system. Not democratic at all. But I suspect that’s the point — Dems want to do all they can to keep out those who aren’t “true blue”. Hence all the bellyaching about Progs. Too bad this is an open primary state, eh?
Here’s what I don’t get about Haik’s position: if Kurt’s ‘ hard job’ experience wasn’t enough to keep us out of the BT debacle when he had the chance, why is promoting him to mayor a good idea? Kurt was _in the room_ when BT happened as much as anyone. OK, anyone except Ashe. And his street smarts didn’t help us then.
We need a fresh start – which happens to be Miro’s slogan, I think, though it was Lorber who promised to do a full accounting of all Burlington’s books at the caucus (go, Lorber!). We’ve got to amputate the necrotic tissue.
Law Talking Guy – Soooo, two years as business lawyer on WS is just as good as working as a consultant to housing developers? Sorry, Charlie. I don’t think so. Two years as a business lawyer is two years as a business lawyer. And neither Miro nor Ashe have a clue what to do IF they were able to get a negotiation out of Citi Financial. Again, jumping the shark is one thing, putting a rookie in front of Wall Street sharks looking to chomp BTV is completely another. I’d rather have Bram in that room, regardless of what you decide is a the appropriate amount of time working on WS to make him a legitimate lawyer in your eyes. The bottom line, Bram is much stronger than Miro and Ashe on this vitally important issue facing the next mayor. Period.
Jonathan – RE: Miro – WHAT business experience? See posts above re: what he’s actually done at Hartland. (And if you think Kurt Wright isn’t going to reveal that in a general election get ready for a public dressing down of the Dem candidate). Miro had money and effectively sold a lot of people on his business experience, which if you actually dig into it, isn’t impressive at all…at least not for a guy trying to be mayor.
From what I know Bram moved here 7 years ago. What you’re repeating is a successful whisper campaign started by Miro or Ashe’s team. I went to the house parties, I heard the rumors being passed around. Ridiculous.
Lastly, re: “voting smart.” I’d say putting Wright in office instead of Ashe is actually much smarter. Have you not read Haik’s blog over the past few weeks? He’s done the due diligence and revealed the utter failure of Ashe in completely ignoring the red flags on BT. He’s part of the problem. I’m not about to ask the same guy who put finances in the red to come back and get us back in the black.
Time for a change. The Progs have had their turn at the wheel and now the car is in the ditch. Let’s let someone else drive for a change.
And don’t get me started on Bob Kiss. If he decides to run on his own ticket, you can hand it all to Wright on a silver platter…and perhaps we deserve that if it happens.
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